Episode 105. Mitchie Takeuchi: The Vow from Hiroshima

Mitchie Takeuchi:

TRT 48.57

[MUSIC]

Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement.

[MUSIC]

David Devine:

Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U Podcast. Today I’d like to welcome a very special guest to the podcast, Mitchie Takeuchi. Mitchie is originally from Hiroshima and currently lives in New York. She is a writer, a filmmaker and an activist. Mitchie has come to Naropa this week to share her movie, The Vow from Hiroshima, which is an intimate portrait of Setsuko Thurlow, a passionate survivor of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima.

In this film, Mitchie was the writer and the producer. And she’s here today to speak about the movie, and also her approach to nuclear guardianship.

Thank you for coming on such short notice. It’s lovely to have you in the studio. Welcome to the podcast.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Great, thank you so much for having me, David.

David Devine:

And it was funny too, because we were told last night that you were like available to podcast. So like we got everything together and lined it up. So it’s really a pleasure to have you here. So thank you for showing up.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well, thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

David Devine:

So I guess to get started, I’d like to start with the fact that you actually grew up in Hiroshima with your family because you were originally born there. Somehow, eventually you ended up moving to New York. And I was just wondering, like, can you tell me about what was it like growing up in Japan and Hiroshima? And then how did you also find your way to the United States and New York?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Okay, that’s a very big question.

David Devine:

There’s a lot in there.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Very good question. Okay. How was it like to live in Hiroshima? In my case, even though my family actually experienced the atomic bombing, my grandparents and my mother, however, because people in Hiroshima did not really talk about the experience of being bombed, I grew up in Hiroshima as if nothing really happened, therefore, I didn’t really feel much impact of that particular horrific event that took place.

So in response to your question, how was it like, he was just like, any other Japanese teenager’s life, let’s say, in 19 — late 60s to early 70s.

David Devine:

And how did you find your way to the United States?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well, how I came to the United States, there are many reasons, but I was always really interested in living an independent life. And that — those days, Japan was still a little bit traditional, and young women didn’t have as much freedom to live your own life as young men.

Anyway, I watched this one American film called Klute, when I was really a teenager. And that was a film that Jane Fonda got her first Academy Award. And that was the film about this struggling, young woman making her life in New York City. And by watching this film, this movie really opened up my eyes. And I really wanted to understand what was really going on. Because it was showing this young, attractive, spunky woman living in this really cool sort of East Village type of apartment. And I was like, wow. Watched it like 10 times to really understand —

David Devine:

Oh.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, right, I was really maniac by the way. And then I was mesmerized to see this struggling woman who was actually making her living by being a call girl. She wanted to be a model and actress, but she had to be doing that kind of work in order to make her living, right? Life in New York is very tough. And there was this — there was some scenes where this woman, whose name is actually Bree Daniels, would go and see and talk to this woman who looked almost like a medical doctor. And I — she would talk anything about what’s happening with her life and confessing about something, and I was mesmerized. Who is she talking to? Then I watched so many — I watched so many times, and I figured that out. That was, she was talking to a psychotherapist or psychoanalysis at the time, then I felt, wow, there is such a professional like that. And I thought, wow, we could really use that kind of professional for anyone who has some problems or issues, anybody can go and talk to, to be so open and try to figure out about the life.

So I really got so excited. And then I basically told my parents, I really had to go to United States to study American kind of psychology. And because I did some research about psychology as a major, and at the time, Japan was very big on experimental psychology, type of psychology. And I certainly was not interested in dealing with like rabbits and mice and so on. And I succeeded in convincing my parents to send me to the United States to study.

David Devine:

Talked them into it? Okay, yeah.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

So one thing that I found interesting is, you’re now like a filmmaker, you deal with video, and producing and writing and all this stuff. But it was a movie that inspired you to come here in the first place.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, yes.

David Devine:

So it’s like you are inspired by video and media —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

To come to the United States. And this is the work that you do at this moment.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, that’s a very good point. And maybe that’s why I wanted to talk about this Jane Fonda story, because that’s when I really realized the power of movie. I felt movie can really open up your world, because we only know what we know. We don’t know what we don’t know. So if we really want to open your world up, the movie can take you someplace you had no idea about. And I believed my experience as a teenager, always stayed with me. And then I came across with this amazingly strong, courageous woman, Setsuko Thurlow, in my life, and I really wanted to show how she lived her life, and wanted to convey the message of her life. I really felt that making a documentary about her life, almost like biographical film, would be a great way to inform and inspire people. So I made the film, because I had the purpose. I thought documentary film would be the best way to tell Setsuko’s story.

David Devine:

Okay, interesting. I really like that approach is where you fulfilled a role instead of you were like a filmmaker, and then you like sought out a film to do. It’s like you found a film. And then you did the writing and the producing and piece the film together to follow this woman’s story, which we’ll get into. And it’s interesting how, like, you’re talking about what we don’t know. And you are like a shower of what people don’t know, because you’re showing someone’s life, and her story, and it’s like a lot of people — like us in America, we’ve heard about the atomic bomb and Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the bombing of that, and it’s just like, our relationship to that is like it’s over there. But the story that you’re sharing is bringing it really close to us. And we get to see the tragedy that actually happened that day. And that continues to kind of happen, you know. So my question to now is, you showed your video yesterday to the Naropa community. Is that correct?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Today. Actually showed today. Yep.

David Devine:

Beautiful. And how did the Naropa community receive that? What was the environment? Like people were very curious? Did they learn some things. Or they like — was it just a full room of people crying? Like how did that go?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well, first of all, you were so wonderful to see this film in front of the large screen.

David Devine:

Oh, yeah.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

With this wonderful audience.

David Devine:

Yeah.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

I’ve seen the film many, many times, right, of course. And yet today, I really felt such genuine warmth. Warmth was in the air. And I was very moved to be in the audience. Because I really felt, I really felt that people were really watching it and very engaged. And felt such a sense of compassion. So I got very teary.

David Devine:

Ooh, it’s like a manifestation of the movie coming out. So you had a Q&A at the end of that as well. Okay.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

Yeah, the Naropa community does that. They kind of like bring their full self and you’re just kind of like, whoa. And the screen is big too. Like we — there’s a big screen in that.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

In the performing arts center.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

It’s really nice, because we are sharing the same experience together. And it’s so much different from just watching it at home, in front of a monitor.

David Devine:

And so this is your first run through of the United States, showing the movie? Because I know you’ve done it in Japan. Is this your first go round around here?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well, actually, we have shown this in, particularly in the disarmament communities. This time, it’s very special. It’s like a premiere, because this is the 56 minutes version of our theatrical version. In other words, we made this TV version 56 minutes for public television. PBS is going to show The Vow from Hiroshima in May next month. And in order to fit in their one hour slot, we made it shorter. And this was the premiere to share this version.

David Devine:

Yeah, cuz you have to like fit it to —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

It being with commercials. And, I see. Was that hard to shorten it? Or —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes.

David Devine:

Okay. How long is it originally?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

It was 84 minutes.

David Devine:

Oh, so you had to cut like a third of it out?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah. So it’s — it’s a little different from the original — in the theatrical version. But in a way, this TV version, it’s more straightforward. It lost a little bit — but it made it kind of compact so that it’s very more direct storytelling, I think.

David Devine:

Beautiful. And we can’t wait to see it.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Thanks.

David Devine:

So thank you for sharing it to our public broadcast system.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, yeah, sure. No, no, it’s fantastic.

David Devine:

So you sort of mentioned, apparently, when I was researching you and looking into your family, turns out that your grandfather, Dr. Ken Takeuchi was in Hiroshima, when the atomic bomb hit August 6, 1945. He was also the director of the Red Cross Hospital at this time in Hiroshima. And your mother and him both survived, is that correct?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

My grandparents and —

David Devine:

Your grandmother and your mother?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

And so what I’m curious about is, could you maybe give our audience a little insight? You sort of mentioned the Japanese culture is a little bit — they hold some of that information? They don’t like share it as much? But is there any information they did share with you about their experience that they had on that day or after that moment?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well, thank you for the question. Actually, my grandfather was in charge of the Red Cross Hospital, at that time. And that was the largest sort of medical center in Hiroshima. So when the atomic bomb was dropped in August 6, like in the morning at 8:15am, he was there. He — he was blown away by the blast, and he got unconscious for few hours, I was told, and he had broken bones in six locations, and then how do you call it, broken glasses, his body was pierced by broken glasses.

David Devine:

Okay, shrapnel.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, right. However, so even though he was seriously injured, and since he was surgeon working for the military as well, he was given the directives to all the medical staff who would come into his room where he’s laying, because he was seriously injured. And he couldn’t really walk —

David Devine:

So he was still giving out initiative — or he was directing people on what to do, but just kind of like dealing with his injuries at the same time?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

Wow.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Exactly. And the Red Cross Hospital was located in the very center part of Hiroshima. And when the atomic bomb was dropped, it destroyed everything. And it really flattened the city, or the buildings so people could really see the hospital, still standing with this huge Red Cross flag.

David Devine:

Oh, really?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah. Medical staff use the white sheets, and draw that the Red Cross to make the instant flag, temporarily flag, so that people can see the hospital is in operation. The hospital was open for people to come. And then my mother, who was 18 years old, almost 19 years old, decided to go into the city from her home, which was the northern part of Hiroshima, she decided to go into the city, looking for her father at the Red Cross Hospital on August 8th. And she found her father seriously injured. She, as a young woman, decided to stay with her father. And she took care of him for several days. And the amazing thing was that I didn’t hear the story from them. I was too young to talk to my grandfather. My mother never really spoke about her experience, until I got a little bit older. And her father, my grandfather, told my mother not to say anything about the fact that she was at the Red Cross Hospital for several days to take care of him, because he was concerned because there was a certain stigma attached to the survivals of atomic bomb, because of certain fear that people had about radiation, the impact of nuclear weapon.

And for example, my grandfather was very concerned that my mother may have some problem getting married.

David Devine:

I see the fact that he was exposed to the bomb and the radiation and she decided to help him and stay with him that he might be exposing her to some radiation? Or?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well actually, because August 8th she went into that city that was really contaminated. And because of that she was exposed to radiation impact, even though she didn’t — she wasn’t at the center of part, right.

David Devine:

She wasn’t where the bomb hit?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

She voluntarily went into that zone to go look for her grandfather?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right so she was exposed to the radiation. And a lot of people did that, a lot of people went into the central part of the city looking for their missing loved ones, families.

David Devine:

Oh man it hits you different when you hear about loved ones and family and just this wanting to know and did the people — where the bomb hit in Hiroshima did they know it was an atomic bomb? Did they know there was like a radiation element, to not just the explosion of this bomb but did they know that?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

That’s a very good question. I don’t think regular civilians knew. And I believe that military people or certain levels of leaders in Hiroshima knew that was a new type of bomb. But I think it took a little bit longer for people to understand this tremendous impact of radiation. That’s why I think there is — maybe that is why certain fear for impact of radiation existed among people. There are a lot of unknowns.

David Devine:

Yeah, because I mean, obviously, that was the first time a bomb like that was ever dropped and being exposed, and you know, dealing with the rubble and the chaos, and oh, man.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

So a lot of doctors — medical doctors in Hiroshima really had a hard time treating the patients, because of course, there were patients who were severely burned, or like broken, actual, you know, bones and so on. But doctors haven’t really dealt with radiation sickness yet.

David Devine:

Yeah, you can’t like put radiation in a cast, or give them some Tylenol or —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

You can’t do surgery on someone who’s irradiated? So it’s like, how do you treat that symptoms yet completely new?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

They were treating patients as they were finding out what was happening plus all the medical supplies and everything else — else was destroyed. So it was — it was a horrible situation because even doctors and nurses and all the first responders were also completely damaged at the same time, and this is exactly why nuclear weapons and human being cannot coexist.

David Devine:

Seriously.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

It’s insanely destructive on so many levels.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

Not even physical and radioactive like, psychologically, as a community. What kind of people can deal with an impact like that? And then what kind of people do the impacting? Who are we to think that we can do that? And who are you to think that you could — you can deal with that? It’s so hard to try and wrap your mind around that. It’s weird how the people who decide what happens, it’s like, a couple people. It’s just a couple people who get to decide like how war goes, you know, the decision makers, but yet it affects so many other people that have no decision or even are in the war.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right. Right.

David Devine:

The amount of unfairness is insanely lopsided.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, yes. But again, this is all about the war, though.

David Devine:

Yeah. I see.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah. So now, I feel that our film, The Vow from Hiroshima, has a responsibility to tell people what really happened under that powerful mushroom cloud.

David Devine:

Yeah. And so to speak about your film, you actually followed — you followed the work of Setsuko —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Thurlow.

David Devine:

Thurlow, who actually became a friend of yours?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

I met Setsuko Thurlow through this activist community called Youth of New York Hibakusha stories, which is founded by Kathleen Sullivan and Robert Croonquist. And the program is to invite Hibakusha, atomic bomb survivals to New York City High Schools.

David Devine:

Hibakusha?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Hibakusha.

David Devine:

Okay, because I came across that word and I was kind of wondering what it was?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Hibakusha means the survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombing — bombs.

David Devine:

So just to go back to her and how you met her, so you met her in your group —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

In New York City through —

David Devine:

It wasn’t like the, you had an idea for this film, you met her, and then the film came to be.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

And how did that come to be with your meeting with her?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

So we met and she would come to New York to speak at the United Nations or to work with high school students and so forth and so on. And then she started to stay with me in my apartment in New York City, because we both went to the same girls’ school in Hiroshima. And we had this sort of like upper class woman, lower class woman kind of a bond. And we became really friendly because we are both ex-pats and have certain common childhood and so forth. And because of the closeness, and because of what was happening to her activism in New York City and different places, so my friend, Suzanne Strickler, who is the director of the daytime soap.

David Devine:

Okay.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

And I said, well, so much is going on with this amazing woman. And actually, that year, she was nominated for Nobel Peace Prize.

David Devine:

Oh wow!

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Personally, right, that was 2015. And we said, we really need to capture what is happening with her life. And since nobody else is doing it, we can’t miss this. So let’s do this without any plan, strategy —

David Devine:

Let’s go.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Money. Yeah.

David Devine:

Let’s figure it out.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

What was that term? That — the survivor term?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Hibakusha.

David Devine:

So she was a survivor as well.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

She was actually in school at the time when it happened?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

13 years old.

David Devine:

And she was one of the only survivors in the —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Of that group, yeah.

David Devine:

The girls group that she was in?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Well, actually, let’s see how many people? I think, 250 students or so.

David Devine:

Oh, my gosh.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Died.

David Devine:

Wow.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

And she survived at the age of 13. And she really made the vow to all her schoolmates who lost their lives. The vow was to not to repeat this ever again. She made a vow to her friends that she — she will work — so that nobody else ever had to lose their lives in vain.

David Devine:

And from the looks of things, it seems like she’s done a pretty good job? Because she — she was traveling, she was a nuclear guardianship, she was telling people about her experience, and — and then you started doing the filmmaking and the producing and so you created The Vow from Hiroshima. So you brought her vow to life in a broader sense, because she was using — like speaking it as a person, you brought her vow to the visual setting where everyone can view it at any time now and remind ourselves of, you know how beautiful life is, and I don’t know, like how we probably shouldn’t be dropping radioactive bombs on people. It’s just so wild to think that like, yeah, what a huge vow to take on. Like, what an honor and what a misfortune at the same time?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, yes.

David Devine:

You know?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes. It’s amazing that she really turned her horrific experience into something very positive.

David Devine:

Yeah.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

To make the change in the world.

David Devine:

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

She’s still doing it at the age of 92.

David Devine:

That’s amazing. I mean, I guess going through something is so impactful of your life, then the message becomes so clear and so strong that there’s like nothing else that matters at this moment, and —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Exactly.

David Devine:

Like her love of life is definitely shining.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes.

David Devine:

And you are amplifying it?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Or amplifying or —

David Devine:

You’re —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, I want to make sure that people get to know her. One great thing about making this film is that people who watch this film, say, they all feel inspired by watching this film. It’s a tough film. This is not an easy topic at all. But at the end of the film, I heard from so many people that they feel very inspired to do something about this. What can we do? And that’s exactly what Setsuko wants to happen. So I feel that that film fulfill — the film fulfills a certain purpose. And I’m really glad about that.

David Devine:

Other than like, maybe conversations of wanting to do good and look at situations of confrontation differently, has there been anything that has actually happened, like a group, a coalition, some initiatives? Has there been any thing started to talk to like political leaders about the severity of such actions and things like that?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, yes, yes. She is a very important part of this campaign. Setsuko has been very active campaigner — campaigner to abolish nuclear weapons. And she has been the voice and face representing Hibakusha in the group called ICAN International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons. This is the consortium of over 500 member organizations around the world who is working toward nuclear free world. And actually, this group won Nobel Peace Prize in 2017. And she was — she made the acceptance speech at the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony in Oslo.

David Devine:

Wow, what a — what a full circle her life has been.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, exactly.

David Devine:

Geez. MITCHIE LAUGHS. Talk about finding your passion and just really going with it. Again, also to transmute trauma into goodness.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes.

David Devine:

Wow, this is like super impactful? With experiencing — you had some family members exposed to it, you made friends with her and you shared her story on like a deeper level as a filmmaker, and also as a friend, and just someone who can be supportive, you know, you said you joined that group, you have some activism actions within your heart, and the direction you are going with how you want to show up in the world. So with experiencing such, this reality shattering event, you know, it has potential to breed animosity and hate and just ill will towards whoever’s the aggressor. And what I’m curious about is how do you like deal with such complex issues of supporting the healing, and also trying to understand why these events take place? Because we can like get there, but how do we defuse it? It seems like a bunch of — a bunch of couple people in a room, talk a lot of stuff, and then they just make a decision that like no one agrees upon, like — like how do we deal with these complex situations?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

That’s a very big question.

David Devine:

It is.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

That is a very big question. And I think that —

David Devine:

I’m sorry, for the big question.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

No, no, no, no. I think that’s how nuclear guardianship becomes so important. Because guardianship is all about to be responsible for our planet, right?

David Devine:

Humanity.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Humanity.

David Devine:

Humanity. That’s pretty much anything, everything here.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

Our water, our air, our —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, to be responsible to our life, to other people’s lives. And to be responsible, where we stand when — where everybody else is standing. And if we could be caring.

David Devine:

Not just responsible too, but respectful.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

Allowing other people to exist.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Exactly, right.

David Devine:

You know, exactly right. It’s like, why can’t we have a conversation first, or seems so weird to just have such an aggressive action? A lot of people fighting this war probably don’t even want to be fighting it.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, right.

David Devine:

They’re just they’re taking orders from, you know, initiatives that they might not fully agree upon. And —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

It doesn’t seem fair to the people in it. It doesn’t seem fair to the people exposed to it. And you know, we’re kind of seeing this now. America’s got their hands in a couple of different wars, right at this moment. And, you know, we’re kind of dealing with some people who do have nuclear arms and the ability to do — recreate the actions that we already saw.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

In 1945.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Sure.

David Devine:

With that experience, what would you have to say with all the work you’ve done to the current situation of how we’re seeing political and global confrontation take place? What would you like to say to some of these people?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, I wish they had more imagination. How they would feel, this horrific, violent action were taking place or happening to their wife, to their mother, to their children, would they continue to be doing that? Maybe they feel — these people feel it’s never gonna happen to them. Maybe that’s how they think.

David Devine:

Interesting. Yeah, there’s like this disassociating property that like, oh, I’m gonna do it to them, before they do it to us. So it’s like it happens over there.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right

David Devine:

You know what I mean, it doesn’t happen to you. And I love how you said imagination.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

Because it does seem like a lack of imagine — like, you cannot imagine how they would feel if that happened to their family, or their loved ones or the people that they call their nation. It’s this uh inability to feel human.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

Or you think you can take a life?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, I feel that there are two ways of thinking about nuclear weapons. One is to — one is political. And the other way is, well, I don’t know how to say this. Nuclear weapons and humanity simply do not exist together. And I think that’s a simple as that.

David Devine:

I — yeah, it’s pretty simple. They don’t work well with each other. It’s interesting to think how we can advance science and technology so far, and we use it for destruction.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes.

David Devine:

Maybe we can use that for something else? I don’t know.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, and the — the technology for war, it’s really advancing like cyber war and —

David Devine:

It’s pretty wild what’s out there. And I feel like most people, they just — they just want to like live their lives.

 

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah. And other people probably don’t want to think about it.

David Devine:

Yeah. But it’s almost like we have to nowadays.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes —

David Devine:

Because we’re so global. The internet has allowed us to have this conversation that normally we couldn’t have. You know, we feel a bit more connected.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, yes. Definitely. We are connected for sure. Yeah.

David Devine:

So with all the work and you know, traveling and dealing with this activism, have you ever come across people with different opinions about war where they defend it and be like, oh, well, we need a defense and oh, well, we need — they like try and reason, the idea to have war? What type of things do they say to explain their positioning when it comes to like the defending of having war?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

It’s very difficult to have a conversation with people with that sort of opinions.

David Devine:

Okay, so they’re just like, well, you know, they did it to us. So we — we got to defend, and this is our country. And —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, I think that’s why, in a way, having a discussion like that, is not going to result in anything. It’s almost like a waste of time and energy. I feel that’s why one of the reason why sharing the film that tells compelling story is going to be a very good tool, if you could get these people sit in front of the screen.

David Devine:

Okay. I think I know where you’re going with this. So it’s like the idea of showing, like a story — a tragic —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, like a —

David Devine:

A tragic story that becomes beautiful at the end of someone working towards disarmament, it has more of a chance to shift a stubborn mind.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Or, yeah, or simply showing or sharing the story about what really happened without any exaggeration, or —

David Devine:

Because we get — we get an American version of the story. We don’t get a Japanese version of the story.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

In the American version of the story, because, in a way, I feel that American citizens have not been — have not had opportunity to really find out what really happened. Because it has been censored. It has — the information has not been disclosed.

David Devine:

We love redacting stuff, like our government is just like let’s not show them that for like 80 years. Just cross it out.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

David Devine:

Right, so, yeah, so you have a little bit of a disadvantage in terms of getting the real story.

David Devine:

We’re almost treated like children, from our politicians. They’re like, oh, well, they don’t understand money. They don’t understand politics. They don’t understand foreign relationships. We’ll deal with that.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, I know what you mean.

David Devine:

From our point of view, we’re just like, what are you doing? And stop. That doesn’t represent the American people, for the most part.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, right.

David Devine:

Or you know, I’m speaking about myself, I guess I don’t know, maybe some people do feel that, but I think most people are — might be disagreeing with most things that deal with war.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, right.

David Devine:

And how we deal with war.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, right. But America is represented by these politicians.

David Devine:

Yeah.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Even though you may not agree with it.

David Devine:

It’s true.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

So, what can you do, you just need to get need to get involved with your council people or congress people, right? That’s how you could start. It may take time, but still —

David Devine:

The voice can be loud when we do it together.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

David Devine:

Okay. So what I’m wondering is like, how important is it nowadays, to come to a clear, rational mind when it comes to nuclear war? You know, since there’s so many countries with the capabilities to have it, we have more nuclear arms than we did at — in 1940s. And we also have more countries that are probably like more aggressors, and —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

They have more number of countries that have nuclear weapons. Yeah.

David Devine:

What would be your message other than like, the imagination, like, how do we try to make countries be okay with that? Is it a disarming thing? Is it more of a conversation about humanity and life? Or what would be our — or what do you think, our approach to disarming or healing? When we have so many different countries nowadays that have the capabilities?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Hmmm, we need to do both, right? It’s a very complicated, big issues. And activists are really working hard to abolish nuclear weapons through various campaigning, talking to the politicians, sending the delegates to the United Nations, and so forth and so on.

David Devine:

But what about — what citizens can do, right? By being responsible to our own environment, our life and some healing? I think it’s important to find out what nuclear weapons do. Because it’s not just about the weapon.

David Devine:

It’s like the psychology of a human.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

There’s a capability of doing it. But then there’s also like, the thing in which that makes the decision, which is like, people, you know, and sometimes we get pushed to a level where they feel like that’s a good decision.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

You mean, the politician?

David Devine:

Or just the — yeah, like the commander in chief, our presidents or people in war?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

You know, you get pushed to a level where they rationalize this idea that it’s okay.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

Without rationalizing the people it’s happening upon.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

And it sounded like you’re talking about a little bit of activism, a little bit of —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, so —

David Devine:

Knowledge. Responsibility of the earth.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right. Right.

David Devine:

Like understanding our connectivity to — other people that we may not even know.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

That is effects. People are good. We want to do good things.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes, absolutely. Definitely.

David Devine:

The act upon goodness is sometimes not easy, I guess.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

In the face of hard times.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah. So it really is all about educating people though. Educating people about what nuclear weapon does, and why it’s even here. So all these questions needs to be answered and it’s a tough subject. Therefore, there has to be educational program to provide easy information. And I feel that once people find out more people get definitely quite concerned. And normally, as we said, people are really good. So they would like to do something about it. That’s what I imagined, and I have met so many people who found out and decided to get involved in, let’s say, actually calling their council people, asking about what their opinion of policy it a — it’s about on their nuclear weapon issue. I think that’s what everybody can do, even though it’s like — it might be a little — it might not be something that you love to be doing. But you can just push yourself to pick up a call — phone and call. And I think that really creates grassroots movement.

David Devine:

I agree.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

I agree, just like being informed.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right.

David Devine:

Understanding and then also understanding policy, understanding local policy, understanding national policy, and just like our country policy and how we move forward and coming together.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah, yeah. And I really feel like, you know, today’s screening at Naropa theatre, I felt so much emotion in the audience. And all — people were really moved to — moved so that they will take action. I really felt that. It’s just such a wonderful Naropa community.

David Devine:

So beautiful.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Right, very special place.

David Devine:

Well, I appreciate you coming in and speaking with me today and hearing your stories, hearing you’re telling of a story. And also just the sharing of the movie that you are touring with and showing everybody, and I just want to present this time, would you like to give our audience like a website? How to find you? How to find the movie? And to you know, do their own research?

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yes. Also our — well, you can always check out our website, The Vow from Hiroshima dot com — The Vow from Hiroshima dot com. And we are going to have the public television broadcast in May. And please check your local PBS station. Do you watch PBS? Probably you might be too young for public television. That’s not that familiar, right?

David Devine:

I used to watch it. Yeah, I used to —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

So you’re familiar with public television?

David Devine:

Yes. Yes. They have some good stuff.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

Very science. Very informative stuff.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

And it’s gonna be available, streaming. So you can definitely check in with their pbs.org or your local public television station here, Rocky Mountain Public Television, I think.

David Devine:

Okay. Beautiful.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah.

David Devine:

So Mitchie it was — it was so beautiful speaking with you today.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Thank you.

David Devine:

I really appreciate you coming in and just like, it’s been a while since I’ve had an in person studio person. And it was such short notice. And —

Mitchie Takeuchi:

I know, thank you for doing it.

David Devine:

I was nervous — you’ve really shared some really heavy stuff, but the way you do it is very light and beautiful and inspiring.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Oh thank you, thank you.

David Devine:

And it’s really potent to hear such information in such hard types of content.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Yeah. Yes.

David Devine:

So thank you for having such a light heart and a beautiful soul while delivering this information.

Mitchie Takeuchi:

Thank you. Thank you. Well, it’s been wonderful. Thank you for having me.

[MUSIC]

On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.