Episode 99. Nova Han: Creating Immersive Spaces 

Nova Han 

Creating Immersive Spaces

TRT 40:23

[MUSIC]

Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement.

 

DAVID:

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U podcast. Today we have a virtual guest with us Nova Han. Nova runs Nova Han productions, which is a full service production company specializing in art direction, design and production for stage shows, festivals, immersive art environments, and specialized talent / characters. Their mission is to create a unique once in a lifetime moments. Her production is committed to creating the highest level of reality altering experiences transporting audiences into otherworldly realms of the sublime and fantastical. So this is pretty cool. So we welcome her to the podcast. So welcome today, how are you doing?

 

Nova Han:

Thank you, doing pretty good.

 

DAVID:

This is very exciting. So it’s like you deal with festivals, events, and very special, fun occasions. And I love this description of like, sublime and fantastical. So one thing I’m wondering about is, so you work for festivals and production teams. And normally, that’s not like a career path that I would say like most people tend to drive towards. And I’m wondering, like, what were you doing before the production company? Like, how did you fall into this line of work? What inspired you to pursue it? And also, how did you start your production company?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, so I went to school for economics and theater, and did the thing that most students do when they graduate, which is get released into the world and wonder what the “F” we’re doing with our life. And I was so broke, I really wanted to go to this New Year’s Eve party, but I was too broke to afford a ticket. So I had heard that this group was starting to form a little circus to do a performance. And it was just like this idea at the time that I had jumped onto the train and ended up running this whole show and doing performance at the party. And I didn’t think much of it at the time. But then it kind of rolled and became a lifestyle for a minute there were we — there just wasn’t a lot of demand for circus kind of avant garde performance art at the time. Or there wasn’t a lot of supply, I would say more demand, not a lot of supply. So in our first year of being formed, we had booked Coachella, the Grammys, the Emmys, all sorts of things —

 

DAVID:

After your first year? Geez.

 

Nova Han:

Within the first year.

 

DAVID:

Okay. Okay. 

 

Nova Han:

So I ended up designing shows and performing in them for about 10 consecutive years at Coachella. And from there, I had other bands and other productions kind of noticed the work that I was putting out. And so it just transpired from me doing those shows to me, designing and building my own production company where I then built, bespoke experiences for bands, shows, location based entertainment. It really just — anything entertainment based in the live spectrum, we’ve really just done and attacked all of that.

 

DAVID:

Okay. One thing I was noticing when I was going through your website and just looking into you is, you know, there’s a lot of different versions of how you could do stage managing or stage design or lighting design video, production, dancers, fire performers, aerial. And what’s interesting is you just sort of described — you came from it from a dancer’s perspective, and then you kind of opened up from there. Is that — is that what I’m hearing?

 

Nova Han:

Exactly. I started — well, you know, I grew up kind of doing theater stage shows like acting, and then I also grew up doing competitive cheer. So that actually made me really have an eye for discipline, accuracy. And then I kind of combined those talents into a weirdo circus world. But yeah, started off designing and building our own stage shows and then was able to apply that to bringing other productions and stage shows to life for other you know, musical artists. And then once that started happening —

 

DAVID:

So like being like psychedelically precise with what you’re doing? 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, yeah. Totally just hippie circus wrangling. LAUGHS

 

DAVID:

It sounded like you had like a package. You know, you had the dancers and you probably had a performance you did. And then you develop dances, I guess that you could perform to different songs. It sounds like some bands were hiring you not just stages and event promotion people. So did you work with artists as well? What type of artists were you working with?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, totally. So had about three different dance companies at one point one was like a more hip hop, puppeteering kind of company. One was all real time video mapping with, you know, high end dance. And then one was like the circus. And then once the band started kind of noticing the works that I was doing, I’ve been able to design shows for one of my main clients is called the String Cheese Incident. So really, everything around that band when it comes to, you know, obviously, they play their music, and they bring their instruments, but anything else I will bring when it comes to — with the costumes, the dancers, the crazy props, the drone show, the video, the specialty lighting, the whatever it is. Usually I get hired because we always push some kind of envelope and bring something that has really just never been done or never been seen.

 

DAVID:

So what is that? Like what has never been seen before?

 

Nova Han:

I don’t know, nowadays, I feel like it’s all been seen. But that could just be myself. But like when we were first doing video mapping, for instance, that was in 2012. That was a very, you know, interactive, real time video mapping. That was a very new thing at the time. And we’ve, you know, flown people on giant helium balloons over a crowd of 50,000 people. We made Guinness Book of World Records for the largest pinwheel that we had motorizing a basket on a cluster of balloons, kind of like a hot air balloon, but it was a cluster of balloons and had a guy with a flaming Triton spearing down, you know, giant balloons with hundreds of thousands of hand painted butterflies would then come shower and down on the crowd. That was probably like 10 years ago. So you can imagine as the technology increases the things that we’ve been able to accomplish and do more.

 

DAVID:

And, you know, shout out to you for String Cheese Incident. I’m in Boulder, so they live in Boulder —

 

Nova Han:

Oh great! 

 

DAVID:

I have an interesting short story to share with you too, is one of the first audio internships I had was on Song In My Head album. I didn’t know whose String Cheese was, but they’re in the album. And then my friend was telling me, these guys are a big deal. And then I looked into them and turn — lucked out that they are a big deal. And they live in Boulder. And that was like the first people I worked with in a studio setting. So, yeah.

 

Nova Han:

That’s awesome. Well, I’m happy to hear that.

 

DAVID:

Yeah.

 

Nova Han:

I’ve been directing their shows at, what we call the shebang is where they have like, you know, all the theatrics come out since 2010. So it’s been —

 

DAVID:

Because that’s like a Red Rocks show. 

 

Nova Han:

Not necessarily. It’s New Year’s, Halloween and Electric Forest. Usually those shows. 

 

DAVID:

So it’s like an on tour type of thing. 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. And it’s usually like a one off, like we’ve never toured the show. It’s always for a specific event.

 

DAVID:

Yeah. Okay, cool. So before we like keep going in, I just want to get your opinion and also your definition of immersive entertainment. So you know, you’re kinda like talking about it. But I’m just wanting to maybe understand like, the foundational principle of how you interact with it, and how you define it and bring it to your shows.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, so I, you know, really consider immersive experiences to be a 360 experience, for one, we’re not in a black box, we’re not in a proscenium, you know, the whole environment is the set. And the storyline should be, you know, it should — in my mind’s eye, it’s very story driven usually. And there are people that are characters that you might hire that are kind of progressing the story forward, getting people and guests to buy into the story to participate. And, you know, using the environment around them to really enhance the story even further. So, and that’s just me, maybe — and maybe the most basic terms immersive is just a 360, you know, experience, but I am a very story driven person, I like for it to have a sense of purpose.

 

DAVID:

So over that definition, you describe developing a story. So when it comes to developing a story, is that something you come up with? Is that something your team comes up with? Do you collaborate with the production or the artists? How does the story come about?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, usually I had like — I usually create the baseline storyline. And it’s really defining like, where are we? When is it? Like, are we in the present time? Are we in the future? Are we in the past? 

 

DAVID:

That can get fun. Okay. 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, like, who are we in meeting? Who are the guests in this experience? What is the actual experience? So it’s really just like defining the who, what, where, when, why — like, the why is really like, what is the purpose of us moving through this space? What is the call to action for our guests? How are we going to engage them to propel them forward and make them successful in that call to action? And hopefully, it’s all compelling when you put it all together. So that’s really where I start, when I kind of start drafting the story. And usually from there, then it really starts to take shape in terms of like, okay, well, then it gives purpose to why we might, you know, design a set a certain way, or why we might embed certain easter eggs or games or whatever.

 

DAVID:

And I can see how that could be really fun, because you’re asking questions that are not contained in this world. So you can create worlds that essentially don’t exist, and you can make them — you can be like, oh, we’re gonna have a mushroom kingdom in the future of the dimension that you’ve never heard of. You know, so you can just make something completely up —

 

Nova Han:

Completely. 

 

DAVID:

And go from there. That sounds like super exciting. Okay. 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. You got it. You nailed it. 

 

DAVID:

So you’re coming from like a dancer’s background. But you’re talking about video mapping. And other performances, like rods of fired and stuff like that. So where did you learn the skills for this? Because you went to school for dancing? Was it like, you know, you just started going to all these events? And you started like taking notes and seeing what creates a vibe, what doesn’t create a vibe, and you go from there? Or was it just like, you just have some — oh, what if we did this? And you just did it. And you’re like that kind of worked. Let’s go that way. How does the process —

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, it’s usually that. You just learn along the way, it’s — there’s not a lot of things that you can do to prepare you for some of these things. You know, the first time that we flew somebody on a helium balloon, it was like, okay, well, we can’t actually put people on that balloon if the wind is above seven miles per hour. Okay, well, how will we determine like, we have an outdoor show, you know how will we, you know, feel safe and I, you know, knowing that and also, knowing that, you know, a day or so before show, how can we make accurate predictions? Oh, I guess we have to hire a meteorologist? Oh, I guess, you know, so it’s like, there’s always things to figure out along the way. And usually, I have to kind of drill down with whoever — whoever I’m hiring to do these things, to really kind of understand their opinion of like, what are the parameters here for safety? For success? What could make it go wrong? And then I have to run around and kind of problem solve how to get around all those things to actually make them happen. So, you know, it’s never — it’s never impossible. I never feel like there’s anything that’s impossible, you just have to have the right people sign off on it.

 

DAVID:

Okay, I was just like thinking of a question while you’re talking about that. You have to deal with safety concerns and organizations, which I’m sure it gets really complicated really quick, because people are signing waivers to come to festivals or events or shows, or you know, like digitally through buying the ticket or whatever. But then you’re probably having to deal with medical teams, meteorologists, like you’re saying that’s a new one. Probably like OSHA, stage crews, the crews that they’re the, you know, the safety teams of the production of the event. So what is that like swimming through the multiple walkie holding people who have authority? 

 

Nova Han:

I mean, you know, it’s not as challenging as you might expect. I think there were some things that I’ve — I’ve just learned a lot of things along the way from making some mistakes, you know, like, I remember, one time I didn’t think it was going to be an issue, it was like, okay, like, we’re gonna have a chainsaw juggler on this stage, like — 

 

DAVID:

No issue. Everything’s fine.

 

Nova Han:

What’s the big deal? And the stage manager of the venue was just like — or production manager of the venue was like, if I had known we could have made plans, but you can’t put a chain saw juggler on the stage. I’m like, why it’s just him. There’s nobody else on the stage. And so I just kind of have come to figure out that like, there is no general like protocol for these things. The only thing that you can do is let people know in these spaces who are like the production managers from not just the band, but like of the venue, let them all know your intentions and as early as possible, because they will for sure have questions and you’ll have to, you know, run through however many hoops to make it happen. A lot of things like I could never anticipate what might be a concern, right. But in the end, it really boils down to do you have insurance? LAUGHS. And yeah, I think it really just boils down to insurance. Really, I haven’t run into something yet that I haven’t been able to do, if we could afford it, I’ll say.

 

DAVID:

All right, just real quick question. What do you think the biggest thing you have done was?

 

Nova Han:

I don’t know about Vegas —

 

DAVID:

Or just the most fantastical to you? 

 

Nova Han:

Well, one time I would say, I really enjoyed — we had this massive disco ball. I can’t even remember how wide it was. Maybe it was like 23 feet diameter that we had at First Bank Center. So you know that up in Colorado.

 

DAVID:

Was that with Beats Antique? 

 

Nova Han:

No, I have done Beats Antique shows.

 

DAVID:

Bass Nectar?

 

Nova Han:

I have done Bass Nectar shows as well. 

 

DAVID:

Because I’m like, was like there? I feel like I’ve seen that disco ball.

 

Nova Han:

You might have, but I don’t know if you have because we’ve only done this once where we had this giant disco ball then at one point it ended up flowering open and descending out of it was a carousel of three white horses that were holding aerialists, so they had these aerialists on a floating carousel came kind of descending out of a big giant disco ball that opened like a flower.

 

DAVID:

Okay, I haven’t seen that. But that sounds crazy. Who were the aerialist?

 

Nova Han:

Oh, I hired some folks out of LA and I brought them up. 

 

DAVID:

That’s awesome. Were they in the ball the whole time, or —

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, they were. They were in the ball the whole time. LAUGHS And the craziest part about that is that because of that venue, we can’t use a motor, which is like, you know, something that would, you know, carry something very heavy, because it’s usually meant for production equipment or building a — it’s almost like a you know, little mini crane, if you will.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, one for like speakers and stuff like that.

 

Nova Han:

Totally. Yeah. And so we had to do all of that with riggers that were using a pulley system of men and this guy basically and catwalks and like lowering things down or making the flower, you know, open, it was pretty nuts. It was a — it was a huge effort of a lot of riggers in the sky, you know, and I actually — I remember, we had to do the same, when this one time, we ended up dropping an entire net over the audience where people were riding the — the net all the way down. And we made it almost so they could touch but like all these people were on this giant net. But again, that had to be all human manpower to pull it down and up. It was kind of wild. 

 

DAVID:

Yeah. And that’s interesting, too, because you — you’re not going to know that you can’t run a motor from the rafters in the event space until you proposed your idea to them? You know, so it’s like issues —

 

Nova Han:

Yeah exactly. 

 

DAVID:

You kind of assume — you show up and you’re like, oh, crap we need we need like 12 dudes with like ropes, holding it straight, so they can let the ladies down real carefully.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, exactly. So the — you know, the only the venue or — is going to be able to tell you what they will and will not allow and why?

 

DAVID:

Okay, so — you know, you — you started this production company. And what I’m curious is what led you to want to start it other than just like working as like a freelancer or maybe like with a team? You know, you kind of just went out and started your own company. And what did it take to do that? Do you have a team already built with you, since you had a like experience with other people? Or did you kind of develop it after you made the company?

 

Nova Han:

No, I kind of developed it. I was having interpersonal relationships with the circus for one. So with the — the woman who actually owned it, even though like I really ran the whole thing, so I wanted to leave for that reason. But also, I wanted to — I wanted to create things where I was able to kind of, you know, change themes project to project, whereas there was, you know, with your own dance company, for instance, it’s like, you really got to stay within the brand. So it allowed me a lot more freedom when I could work with other artists to bring a vision to life for them. 

 

DAVID:

Okay, so you like choreograph a bit?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. I was choreographing. I don’t do that anymore at all. But that’s what I was doing with the circus stuff. And then — but now I’m just truly in the like, creative direction, kind of visionary space where like, I have the vision, and I’m able to like actually produce it and make it happen.

 

DAVID:

That sounds like a fun gig. You’re just like, I got this idea!

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, it’s kind of — it’s kind of insane that it became a viable career.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, well, good work. What I’m wondering is you’ve been doing this work for a bit and stage design, sound design, visual projection mapping is like fairly new, you know, having lights and — for shows and lasers and stuff, so like that’s been around for a bit. But video mapping is new, theme dancers are kind of new. What I’m wondering is how has the creative space of stage building and stage design changed over the time that you started and where it is now? Because now we’re using like air horns and crazy amounts of confetti? You know, it’s just like, trying to just go over the top all the time, how has that creative space changed over your time?

 

Nova Han:

I mean, you know, for the — I wouldn’t say like, in massively drastic ways, yet, in terms of like the whole industry, a lot of people just still use the kind of the same special effects. They’re just easy, I will say, but you know, when you do see someone doing really innovative stuff, it’s really just like, we’re — you know, for me, I feel like I’m constantly innovating as quickly as technology can be innovating. And it really just depends if the band has the budget to accommodate that. So when you do see something really new and interesting, like robotic LED panels that are being choreographed to, you know, make a giant screen, but then each piece breaks away and spins and does their own choreography. You’re looking at a production that has, you know, a lot more money to spend, because like, new technologies are never cheap. And by the time they are affordable, you’ve might have seen them a lot.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, no, I hear that. I DJ. So the DJ equipment is always constantly changing. They’re like on like the Pioneer DJ on Nexus 9002.79. You’re like, geez, I hear. 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. And you’re like, does it need to progress that much? It’s like the — you know, regular old controllers still work?

 

DAVID:

Yeah, no, they’re all great, though. I mean, the new ones, they do advance, you know, and I think I hear what you’re saying too, because it’s not like, video walls are new. But the video wall itself is new, how they can easily put it together. I forget, like the technical term of how many little diodes are in it, you know, because they — they measure how many lights are actually in it. So it’s a lot more expensive to have the like the newer tech. So one thing I’m wondering is, you’ve done a lot of different things. It sounds like festivals, events, shows, you probably even worked with some commercial companies to even have events that you’ve worked with them. What is it like? Like, how do you plan compared to like an event compared to working with a band compared to working with a production? You know, or maybe even putting on your own production? Is there different ways you approach these, I guess, gigs or clients? 

 

Nova Han:

I wouldn’t say that there is that drastic of an approach necessarily. There are some, I’ll say who are more well versed when it comes to the chapters of development. So if you’re building something that’s meant to be like a permanent installation, there are some real design chapters. There’s your blue sky, you know, chapter which is the first one which is like, let’s just dream big if we had all the money, and all the time, and then you have your creative dev, you know, chapter one, which is, right, now let’s base this in reality, like where — what do we actually want to land on in terms of a product? And then you have your creative dev too, which is okay, now that we have our money secured, vendors that we’re securing, what is actually — what is the product really going to look like now that we’re starting to cost estimate, because it’s never how you originally think it might be. So like, there’s I would say clearer stages like that. But then sometimes if you’re just working with a client, for like, a one off event, it’s really just pretty — it’s pretty standard. It’s a, you know, a discovery call, a pitch deck, you know, you go back and forth on the creative concept, you quote them, you know, you give them a quote, and hopefully they pay you money to do it. 

 

DAVID:

Okay, hopefully they pay you money. So I was thinking what, you know, you’re talking about like budgets, it seems as though you develop a budget, the client comes to you and says like, yes or no, but what is the biggest budget you’ve spent?

 

Nova Han:

I guess, like a million.

 

DAVID:

A million. Okay. And that’s like a one off show. 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. 

 

DAVID:

Okay. And so that’s — that money is spent between you know, your services, so getting paid for what you do, because you’re professional, then there’s the like paying other clients and then there’s renting meteorologists, and then there’s like actually renting gear itself — do you have this gear?

 

Nova Han:

I don’t rent gear actually, like, when I’ve had budgets like that, it’s really goes to either, you know, like I’m — I’m creative director for Electric Forest Festival. So it’s like, you know, it goes to vendors, what we call vendors, which are like artists groups. It goes to working with them and developing their ideas and then giving them some money to like bring to life their idea or, you know, or potentially a commissioned idea that I have developed. It goes to characters, it goes to costuming, it goes to management positions. Yeah. But actually there’s a whole other — there are other budgets that go for sound and lighting and the technical production stuff that I don’t typically deal with those budgets, because that’s not the teams that I’m hiring. I just work with those teams.

 

DAVID:

Yeah. And that makes sense. I’m wondering, like who’s on your roster? Because it sounds like you have some reoccurring clients, whether they’re artists, bands, or you know, maybe you know, electronic acts, but you also have some events, you know, you just mentioned Electronic Forrest. Is there also venues that you’re kind of known for, you know, I’m like, 20, 30 minutes away from Red Rocks right now. So, I’ve seen that you’ve worked with Red Rocks a couple times. So, can you just like let us know some of your reoccurring clients?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. I mean, I’ve mentioned String Cheese is a long term client. Electric Forest, I’ve been with them for about 12 years now. I’ve been experiential director for Lost Lands for a few years with Excision. As far as venues, I don’t know about like, I mean, I have done Red Rocks a couple of times. I was able to do Shpongles, like kind of finale shows there.

 

DAVID:

I was there. Yeah. 

 

Nova Han:

Oh, you were? Oh cool. Yeah, the big, you know, astronaut guy. And we tried to bring him out both nights, but he totally hit a tree and like popped the first night. Yeah, so I’ve done him a few times. First Bank a few times. I don’t know, you know, I would say like, those are probably like, the spaces that I’ve been the most, maybe. 

 

DAVID:

Okay. So, when it comes to the work you do, there is a like a crap ton of planning, I bet. And thinking about, you know, what people are going to be involved, what gear do you need to be used, is everything fitted, you know, is the weather correct? You know, mapping the site, if it’s muddy, you can’t drive the forklift, you know what I mean? There’s like all these weird things you hit once you run outside in different elements. So what do you think about like, when it comes to planning, logistics, mapping, you know, protocols, you know, safety installations, like, what do you do?

 

Nova Han:

Well, thankfully, a lot of the like safety stuff, I don’t have to make up on my own. I’m told what to do. LAUGHS. So like, if there’s like a lightning or thunderstorm, like we usually have different levels of code, yellow, code red, if it’s like truly an emergency. So just having done it enough times now, I’m like really aware of how to direct the team should we have like some really inclement weather or thunder and lightning. And then outside of that, I don’t recall the — sorry, what was the first part of the question?

 

DAVID:

Oh, just like when it comes to all the different things when you think about it like gathering people planning, mapping, logistics, getting the gear ahead of time, how long does the planning process take? Like, could you throw something epic together in a month? Do you need six months? Do you need like — once the festival is over, you’re just right at it again? How does that work?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, it just really depends. It depends on how much scope we’re taking over, really. But generally, for something like the size of Electric Forrest like, I’ll need about nine months to really interact and interface with different artists vendors, understand the scope of what they’re bringing, understand how much lead time they might need to build, understanding what is like the equipment they’re going to need to build. Then, like really looking and cross referencing, what is all the equipment that all the artists have asked for — what is their build schedule look like? What equipment can they share? So yeah, you know, we have — we have a lot of different kind of operational systems that we’ve built in house to track that information so that we’re being efficient with our resources.

 

DAVID:

Okay. And do you work with the like, the site layout of the festival? Or is it already laid out? And then you get put in there to design the structures that they outlined for you?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, the Electric Forest is more or less laid out with the areas.

 

DAVID:

Like are you putting the lights in the trees? Are you doing that stuff?

 

Nova Han:

No, I tell them what lighting like, what I’d like for lighting and then another vendor goes off and installs it. And then I do place — placement of art and the curation of that, but I’m not like necessarily drawing out here’s where I need an egress emergency road and here’s where I would need a bottle check. Like that’s really just, you know, I trust our site operations directors to do that. I mostly plan on how it might affect either our people or are creative.

 

DAVID:

Okay. So when it comes to events and shows and you know groups playing, there’s a — there’s a difference between like an outside show and an inside show when it comes to audio. And you know, you can do a lot more different things with lighting when you’re inside compared to outside, like smoke holds. And you know dancing, even like size of stage can be a lot different. You’re kind of contained to how many people you can have in the venue and the way the venue is laid out. And I’m wondering, what are your challenges? And is there anything fun about each side of being outside compared to inside that you enjoy working with?

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, inside is definitely always better, I’ll say. 

 

DAVID:

Why is that?

 

Nova Han:

There is no scenario in which outside is better. Mostly, because outside has so many variables. There are so many things when it comes to — yeah, weather. There’s not a lot of things, like you can’t just rig to the sky. So there’s —

 

DAVID:

You can’t? Come on. 

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, it’s pretty limiting. 

 

DAVID:

How about some balloons? You don’t want to have like, balloons like counterweight the system?

 

Nova Han:

Completely. I’ve done that so many times, actually. I’m just tired of balloons. LAUGHS. Yeah, that’s — just like, it’s limited to like, what all you can do, right? And like, right now, drones are becoming quite popular. And eventually, at some point, I kind of wonder like, when is it going to be the moment where it’s like, everyone’s seen a drone show? Like, why is that exciting or interesting anymore? Whereas indoors, it’s really like limitless. You can really — because you can control the lighting, the haze the fog, you can really, you know, for me, what I think creates an impactful performance is not always about how much eye candy and visual stimulus can you provide. But really like how does it choreograph to the music where it really takes people on a journey? That, to me is really the most important and you can do that so much, with so much more control and ease indoors.

 

DAVID:

I’m hearing you say story and you know, vision and things like this. And what I’m getting from that is seeing something that’s eye candy, you’re like, look, that’s cool, my attention — my attention is here. But then once that vision of coolness is over, my attention is back into wherever I was before that, but if you have a story, your attention is constantly occupied with like, oh my god, like, look how that ties into — whoa, look, what — look at that. So I’m just kind of noticing it has — it grabs your attention in a lot like deeper sense.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, absolutely. What it also like, I mean, you can have just utter goosebumps if you see, like Elton John playing at his piano with a single light, right. And — because it’s a great performer, and there’s drama and like that just single light with some haze. And it could be so much more impactful than if you had all the confetti in the world. Because there is context, right? Like you there’s some kind of emotional connection. So I think it’s really just about how do you create that emotional connection?

 

DAVID:

Yeah. So when it comes to working with the different organizations, clients, and events and all this, what does that look like? Do — because you’ve worked with Electronic Force a couple times, so they just keep hiring you? But do people see that work and then come to you and be like, I want to work with you. I want to try something or you know, when you’re working with a band, another band sees that and is like, we want that level of production. How do you get clients or do you reach out to clients and you’re like, hey, I would love to work with you. I can do this. I can provide this.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, it’s pretty — it’s very much word of mouth. I have never spent a single dollar on marketing. It’s relationships. It’s word of mouth. Yeah, Electric Force is its own calling card. So really, we’re — we’re very known to be a very artistic festival, but also very theatrical.

 

DAVID:

I mean, you come from the circus background, right? So —

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, well and the theatre background, right. So like, we have a lot more story engagement and game press and things like that, that don’t really exist it other festivals. So yeah, a lot of times it’s just like a quick Google search and you could just look up Creative Director for Electric Forest and find me, but a lot of it is just you know, word of mouth. I got like, three other festival inquiries. I think this — even just this last week, and I’ve kind of you know, I’m being very picky and choosey when it comes to that. Bands are different. Bands are — it’s a different scenario. It’s a very personal relationship that bands have with their creative directors. You can’t necessarily just like write a band, which I have done in the past, you know, like I was, you know, grateful to have gotten in the door with Beyonce’s, you know, team at one point. Yeah, it was very, you know, awesome. And I was also told, like, she’s, you know, she has her people and she’s very loyal to them and most very successful bands do have their people, they are very loyal to them. Yeah, that’s a little bit of a harder ceiling to break through when it comes to how do you cut through the noise and kind of develop that personal relationship?

 

DAVID:

Yeah. And I wonder if it sharpens your creative tool, if you have some parameters, whether they be like natural or, you know, building structure wise, or artists relationship, they have their people, and you’re just coming in as a guest and working with them. So it’s like, you get to challenge your creativity, because you can show up one way and then realize, like, maybe this isn’t gonna work the way I thought it was. So I have to just change it a little bit. So I’m sure that happens a lot.

 

Nova Han:

It happens all the time. That’s part of the creative process is how do we take — it’s never you know, your product is never what you envisioned it to start. It’s always the best of all the compromises you had to make with time, money, resources.

 

DAVID:

Yeah. Okay. So what are some of your most memorable experiences that you’ve had over this work you’ve done? You’ve mentioned a couple. And I’m just wondering, is there anything else out there that you haven’t said?

 

Nova Han:

No, I mean, I definitely I have had some crazy times when I was performing in like Ireland, and going on tours through Portugal and Morocco. And those are like, amazing times, for me personally, as just kind of touring the world with my circus freak friends. 

 

DAVID:

That sounds great.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, and that’s really how it started was just wanting to have fun with my friends. When it comes to like, you know, personal achievements in this space, I don’t know, I think I — it’s kind of funny, I actually have quite a short term memory when it comes to how I feel about these shows. I kind of just, I’m like, great, that’s done and I walk away.

 

DAVID:

You’re thinking in front of you, not behind you. 

 

Nova Han:

I guess so, yeah.

 

DAVID:

Different direction of where your mind lands. Okay.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, probably would be a healthier practice to like, genuinely give myself a pat on the back every once in a while, but I just usually —

 

DAVID:

You’re doing great. I’m here for that. 

 

Nova Han:

I’m distraught with knowing it’s the, you know, artists curse between knowing what it could have been. And then what — where it landed. And I’m usually distraught with that. LAUGHS

 

DAVID:

I just did a podcast with a woman who taught at Naropa in the mid 70s. So she was there when Trungpa Rinpoche, the guy who started the school, and she — she does enzo circles. And she’s the type of — she’s like a kind of a small woman, but she just draws on these huge pieces of paper, but she talks about heaven, earth and man. And she’s always like, I can always get better. And I’m like, I understand. And a lot of creative people talk about like, I always think you can see yourself better. But where you’re at — your actual talent is, is like, you know, right here, but you can always see in front of you. So as you get better, so does your vision of seeing yourself get better too. So — 

 

Nova Han:

Lately.

 

DAVID:

Catch up with that. So —

 

Nova Han:

No, and it’s always like, there’s always, it’s like, you’re always trying to close the gap between what your vision is and what your experience, your resources, you know, and your resources can afford you. And sometimes your experience, you know, gets a little better, you get a little more resources, but then your vision projects further.

 

DAVID:

But I mean, you are progressing, and you’re putting the content out, which is important.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah. Trying to progress. LAUGHS

 

DAVID:

You do a lot of cool work with all these festivals and stuff. But is there anything coming this year that you’re excited about? Are you working with anyone new? Are you trying anything new, anything exciting?

 

Nova Han:

Well, I have one project that’s under NDA, that’s a very large project in Vegas that I hope happens, we’ll see. As far as anything new other than the shows that I’ve disclosed. I’m working on an immersive art golf course right now in — in Austin. So I hope that becomes cool and fun. And I walked them through the whole process, as mentioned, start with the story and then develop the content. Yeah, we’ll see how that goes. 

 

DAVID:

It’s amazing. Well, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and speaking with us. You know, I feel as though Naropa students have this creativity. And it’s interesting to explore careers where you can be creative, and you can have fun and do what you want. And I just appreciate you speaking with us and just real quick, maybe you can just shout out your website or you know where you can see your work.

 

Nova Han:

Yeah, you can see my work at novahan.com. Spelled N, like Nancy. O, V, like Victor, A. H-A-N as in Nancy dot com. It’s also my handle for Instagram, Facebook, it’s all Nova Han or Nova Han Productions.

 

DAVID:

All right. Well, thank you so much. 

 

[MUSIC]

 

On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.